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Blog Entry

Richt: oversigning 'an awful thing to do'

Posted on: May 15, 2011 2:27 pm
Edited on: May 15, 2011 2:29 pm
 
Posted by Jerry Hinnen

Could the SEC be headed towards a showdown over oversigning?

Mike Slive has promised the league will "take a look" at stronger measures to address the issue during its annual spring meeting, and you don't have to squint to see two factions forming as regards that "look": one featuring coaches like Nick Saban and Steve Spurrier (amongst others) who have defended their use of "grayshirts," and one with Florida president Bernie Machen and Georgia athletic director Greg McGarity who would like to see it prohibited.

So where does Mark Richt's allegiances in this potential battle lie? If McGarity's position didn't already make them plain, his comments to a Greenville (S.C.) gathering of Bulldog alumni this past week put them beyond all doubt:
"If you sign a class, you can only bring in as many as you have room for, so let's say you have 85 on scholarship and let's say you have 15 seniors graduating. Well, there's only 15 more spots for 85, you can sign 25 guys, by rule, and in February you can sign those 25 guys," Richt said. "Now, by the time that season starts, you may have more attrition, five more guys may leave for whatever reason, may go pro, transfer, so let's say you're down to 20.

"You've got 20 spaces but you've still signed 25. Well, you can bring them in during the summer, work them and let your strength staff work with them, and decide which ones you like the best. The other five, you can tell them, 'Hey, we know we signed you, we expect you to come in, but we don't have space for you, we're sorry, but you have to leave and come back in January.'"

After a brief pause, Richt gave his feelings on that particular tactic.

"I think that's an awful thing to do," Richt said. "It's nothing that we have ever done since we've been at Georgia."
Of course, with his very next breath, Richt admitted that he had "talked to a kid about grayshirting" before Signing Day, in the unlikely event the Bulldogs roster remained too full for fall enrollment. (He said that despite those discussions, the Bulldogs' recruits had all "come in with their class.") It'd an admission that illustrates how difficult legislating change would be for Slive and proponents like Machen. How do you write a rule that differentiates between the kind of agreed-upon-by-all-parties scenario Richt describes, and a case like LSU's Elliott Porter, who last August was asked to move out of his LSU dorm room after Les Miles ran out of scholarships?

We're not sure. But given his vehemence, it sounds like Richt will be perfectly happy to see Slive and Co. try ... or simply do away with grayshirting all together.

HT: the AJC.

Comments

Since: Jan 17, 2008
Posted on: May 17, 2011 5:19 pm
 

Richt: oversigning 'an awful thing to do'

Rebel, you have my apologies as well.  I normally try to avoid namecalling and personal attacks on these boards, but failed miserably today.  My apologies to all who had to read this thread as well.



Since: Jan 5, 2007
Posted on: May 17, 2011 5:13 pm
 

Richt: oversigning 'an awful thing to do'

Nitro...I sent you a PM in another thread you wrote....

but, so you know I was sincere, I'll make it public....my apologies for being a dick ;p



Since: Jan 17, 2008
Posted on: May 17, 2011 4:54 pm
 

Richt: oversigning 'an awful thing to do'

Thank you for sharing your experience, routefndrlee.  I agree...oversigning is a lousy practice, and there should be rules against it.

On a lighter note, looks like both RebelRaiders and I were wrong...someone hurt by oversigning did complain about it in a public forum.   ;-)



Since: Nov 27, 2006
Posted on: May 17, 2011 4:27 pm
 

Richt: oversigning 'an awful thing to do'

I had it happen to me when I was 18, now 37, still remember calling my dad and asking him if he would be mad at me for starting a fist fight with a coach at a university, I practically had to stop him from getting into a fight.  I never did fight the coach but I did return to his office and tell him how much of a lowly coward he was for promising the same scholarship to 2 different kids, and I took the other guy that got the scholarship with me,,, as we were long time friends and he stood by me while I cussed him out.  I ended up at another school, but my college experience wasnt the same, had to set out a semester becasue I had already enrolled at that school under the premise of having a scholarship.  I had other offers prior and could have taken them had I known the outcome.... hard lesson learned, cost me money and time, and a little pride.  I think they should fire any coach they catch offering more scholarships that they have.



Since: Jan 5, 2007
Posted on: May 17, 2011 4:27 pm
 

Richt: oversigning 'an awful thing to do'

lol



Since: Jan 17, 2008
Posted on: May 17, 2011 4:23 pm
 

Richt: oversigning 'an awful thing to do'

Uh....it was more than "slightly" flawed. It contained completely false information regarding at least 2 players. It doesn't pass a sniff test moron.

If you were not such a myopic tool, you would realize that the accuracy of that data had no bearing on my main point.  My point was not about breaking down the numbers, it was to illustrate that those hurt by the process are motivated to not complain.  You say there is no problem because nobody complains.  I say those who are hurt by the practice would be stupid to complain in public, because it is generally not in their best interest.  You read way too much into my original comment, and are too goddam stubborn to admit I had a valid point.


Yes, you and your arrogance seem to know all the ins and outs of Oversigning, whose doing what and wh is getting screwed.

I never claimed to be an expert in oversigning.  After all, I'm a Big Ten guy, and the Big Ten frowns on the practice.  It is you SEC dudes that are experts on the ins and outs of oversigning.  Then again, it does not take an expert to know that those who practice oversigning have an advantage over those who do not.


Wrong. No kids were forced out by yanking their schollies, 2 were asked to greyshirt(after being told it was highly likely before they committed), that's just more of you specualting on sh*t you know nothing about. You're and idiot, a dick, and a moron. 

Please allow me to quote your exact words regarding the number of kids who had schollies yanked:  "Now we're down to 2, and yet keep running your trap...".  So someone said 3, and I used that to support a point that had nothing to do with numbers.  Then you said that was factually incorrect because it was really only 2.  So I accept your number and use that for a different point, but now you say the number is zero.  So which is it?  Never mind, I'm stupid for arguing with a history revisionist.  Go have sex with yourself, chodesmoker.



Since: Apr 25, 2011
Posted on: May 17, 2011 3:52 pm
 

Richt: oversigning 'an awful thing to do'

4 of the 11 kids were either pushed out or into a grayshirt so Bama could get down to the 85 scholarship limit last season. 


Wow so two players got grayshirted(after being told they would be) and two quit football on their own after graduating. One transferred due to either Bad grades or attitude with the rules, either way its a priviledge to play at Bama, so respect the rules or leave.
    What I find funny is attacking a school that is not number 1, 2 or 3 on the list of worst offenders. this shows either a complete lack of kowledge on the subject or intense hatred for Saban and Envy for the program he has built. The facts are not known about how many scholarship players he carries on any given year. Only specualtion into how many he signs versus how many scholarships players he can have versus how many left for graduation or early entry.

 Now as for the issue of grayshirting. they dont count towards a scholarship and could transfer if they wanted to wait a year, but they never do. why could this be, because its their dream to play at Bama nad one year is no big deal to them. They eventually get the scholarship they wanted and we get the player we wanted. Its not like they were going anywhere else. See under the premise he is lying to them and not telling them before they sign that they may be grayshirted, this is a bad thing, but if he tells them before hand its a possibility and they still sign them its on the kids as they made the choice to come anyway. So how is this a bad thing on the schools part?     



Since: Jan 17, 2008
Posted on: May 17, 2011 3:36 pm
 

Richt: oversigning 'an awful thing to do'

Your opinion, In my opinion you still have not proved anything by taking a list of players that had clear issues(in most cases) and trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. 2 are still on the roster and being carried by the school as players. 3 had injurieds that chose to quit football on their own. 2 cannot make the grades to stay at a school clearly not all that difficult to get into compared to Duke or Vandy. ! saw he was not going to be the "Man " At Alabama and thus decided to go elsewhere. He is a victim of hiring a new coach and getting a new scheme in place on offense, sad but no one screwed him, he made his choice.  


If you read my post, I used a breakdown of the various reasons 11 players were moved out of the Bama program last season in order to make a point that generally, none of them are likely to complain in public about the practice of oversigning.  I made that point because someone said that oversigning must not be bad because nobody has complained. 

I agree with you, the majority of those who left the Bama program did so for legitimate reasons.  All schools have kids who quit due to injury, flunk out or decide to transfer out to find playing time.  But any way you cut it, 4 of the 11 kids were either pushed out or into a grayshirt so Bama could get down to the 85 scholarship limit last season.  I'm not even all that critical of grayshirting.  As I've said multiple times, grayshirting is not the problem...oversigning is the problem.  But in this case, grayshirts were used to allow for too much oversigning.  I'm not trying to make a big deal about it, but I do think oversigning is a lousy practice that gives those who do it an advantage over those who do not.



Since: Apr 25, 2011
Posted on: May 17, 2011 3:06 pm
 

Richt: oversigning 'an awful thing to do'

What is funny is that Saban does not top the list of oversigners, but his name is the one everyone remembers because he is outspoken about it. hre are the numbers for the past four years :

2008-2011
4-Year Avg. yr
Ole Miss 121 30.25
Auburn 113 28.25
Arkansas 111 27.75
Alabama 107 26.75
South Car 106 26.5
Miss. St 102 25.5
LSU 101 25.25
Kentucky 99 24.75
Tenn 91 22.75
Georgia 88 22
Florida 85 21.25
Vand 84 21


As you can see three teams are worse offenders than Bama, but no one mentions them in these posts when speaking about oversigning, just Saban. Shows a complete lack of objectivity and a good amount of hate and envy. It also shows a complete lack of the knowledge to speak on a subject when you single out one man about choose to ignore three worse offenders.   
  



Since: Jan 5, 2007
Posted on: May 17, 2011 2:53 pm
 

Richt: oversigning 'an awful thing to do'

Oh that's rich!  The data someone else posted was slightly flawed, so I unknowingly used slightly flawed data.  So it was only 2 players that had their scholarships yanked out from under them instead of 3.  In the immortal words of Steve Martin, "Well EXCUUUUUUUSE MEEEEEEEE!".  Never mind that it has no bearing on my main point that the kids that get screwed don't complain about it in public because it is in their best interest to keep their mouths shut.  So my point still stands, and your are still every bit as obtuse as that steaming pile of BS you are spouting.

Uh....it was more than "slightly" flawed. It contained completely false information regarding at least 2 players. It doesn't pass a sniff test moron.


None of this adresses the real problem with oversigning anyway.  It gives those who practice this ethically challenged tactic have a big advantage over those who don't. Let's look at the numbers.  The NCAA allows 85 scholarships.  When divided by 4, that works out to 21.25 per year average.  Yes, some kids go pro early, flunk out, get hurt, quit and transfer.  However, there are also a lot of 5th year Seniors in NCAA football, so that tends to even things out.  Now it is a fact that there are a number of SEC schools who have signed an average of at least 26 players over the past 4 years.  That averages out to an extra 5 players per year, or 20 in 4 years.  Tell me, what coach wouldn't want to bring in the equivalent of an extra recruiting class over 4 years?  That is a 25% increase in talent available for development, which is a huge advantage.

Yes, you and your arrogance seem to know all the ins and outs of Oversigning, whose doing what and wh is getting screwed. The only thing you have truly proven about this subject is you are absoultely clueless to what you are taling about. I'm not really here to argue with what you are talking about, I'm here to a

As for "Saban's Victim List", I'll use your numbers:  (2) kids were forced out by yanking their schollies, and (2) were forced into a grayshirt, all so Bama could meet the limit of 85.  But being the compassionate d-nozzle that you are, you say it is all OK because the kids don't complain.  An you think I'm a dick?

Wrong. No kids were forced out by yanking their schollies, 2 were asked to greyshirt(after being told it was highly likely before they committed), that's just more of you specualting on sh*t you know nothing about. You're and idiot, a dick, and a moron. Hope that clarifies my true feelings about your BS. 



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