Blog Entry

Ex-NCAA president Dempsey: FBS split on its way

Posted on: August 15, 2011 12:18 pm
Edited on: August 15, 2011 12:22 pm
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Posted by Jerry Hinnen

Reactions to this weekend's seismic snub of Texas A&M by the SEC -- or it just a postponement until the legal wrangling is settled? -- have come from far and wide. But the one from former NCAA president Cedric Dempsey suggests that the proper reation is to assume nothing has changed where the BCS conferences' eventual destination is concerned.

The NCAA's head honcho from 1993 to 2002, Dempsey told the Birmingham News that "the handwriting is on the wall" when it comes to college athletics superconferences and the eventual split of those conferences from the rank-and-file of Division I.

The make-or-break issue, as you might expect, is the full cost of attendance scholarships that only the superconferences will be able to afford. "There's no doubt we're looking in the next three, four or five years -- at most -- of seeing conferences from 14 to 18 members," Dempsey said.

Those conferences would then either have a new set of NCAA rules rewritten for them, or -- in a move Dempsey characterizes as "less likely" -- simply withdraw from the NCAA entirely.

Keep in mind that this isn't some anonymous NCAA-hater who's been waiting with baited breath for the organization to finally lose its grip on the way college athletics is run. Quite the opposite: Dempsey has a vested interest in seeing the NCAA maintain something resembling the status quo. But even that isn't enough to make him optimistic major college football will be able to keep everyone on the same playing field.

Of course, with the advent of full cost scholarships, there's some positives to this development from Dempsey's perspective. (Dempsey noted the irony that when asked to provide a share of NCAA Tournament money to athletes during his tenure, the conference commissioners balked; now that that money could be used to provide an athletic advantage, those same commisioners are gung-ho.) But the bottom line remains the same: when even the NCAA's former biggest cheerleaders believe the current FBS model is doomed, the A&M-SEC flirtation looks more and more like an early fissure in an eventual college football earthquake.


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Comments

Since: Aug 25, 2011
Posted on: August 25, 2011 2:32 am
 

Ex-NCAA president Dempsey: FBS split on its way

Lots of words about an EX NCAA guy.  First he is gone because he is out of favor.  And a split is exactly not the cure for anything that is wrong with the FBS and BCS.  The Problem is Inequality.  The NCAA keeps bringing in more weak sisters (Texas State, UTSA, UMass, and some school in Alabam I have never heard of.) but never integrates them into the good Conferences (AQ) nor gives them in a share of the revenue that these little guys make possible by losing to the Big Guys.  AQ Conferences are all messed up and going wild to get even more messed up. (PAC-12, 16, 20, 50 or more)

Lets build in equality by realigning the Conferences and holding off any more expansion of the Div 1 A (FBS).  Twelve Football Only Conferences of ten teams each with the best, mid and least teams divided evenly among all the Conferences.  No more Patsies forcing the winning teams  to win against teams of nearly the same strength of program in the non-conference games and evenly divided teams in their Conference.

Then share the money so that the little guys can build their program into a winning machine.  A realignment after a three year contract is done.

Then you will have 12 Conference Champions and the 4 best 2nd Place teams in a 16 team, 15 game, 4 round National Championship Playoff Series played from Dec 31st thru the 3 week of January.   This NCPS should be made up of the 4 BCS Bowl Organizations plus the Cotton Bowl with two games each including Rd 3 & Rd 4 and then 5 of the other bowls dividing up 3 Round 1 and 2 Round 2 Games.  Wow, an Undisputed National Champion determined on the field of play.

Then take the remaining 24 Bowls and have them divide up the remaining 6 win teams during a Post Season Bowl Competition during December and the first week of January.

We don't need the complicated schemes sited in some of the comments.  Because they keep the inequality built into the current Conferences. Check out for a plan that lets the Fans vote in one of the 2nd Place teams they think is being left out.



Since: Jan 1, 2007
Posted on: August 17, 2011 6:39 am
 

Ex-NCAA president Dempsey: FBS split on its way


Right now, general FBS participation requires a school to have a 30,000 seat stadium and minimal requirements of about 60% of that support that goes with it.  About half the FBS level programs are at the 50,000 seat stadium level.  To me, that is the demarcation of major college ball.  A LOT of well known FBS programs are below that level, schools like Utah, Oregon State, Louisville, much of the Big-East, many of the ACC schools.   How is it that one of the bigger satronger programs in the country BYU is not BCS?  To me size matters.  It is probably only a matter of a year or so before BYU gets elevated to Notre Dame statuse with or without a BCS conference, in part because of how strong it has ben for 4 decades, and because ESPN (BYU's Independence partner) which has the gold (BCS Contracts) probably ultimately makes the rules.  BYU is in good shape no matter what.  But is KSU, ISU, Duke, Wake Forest, NC State, Maryland?   Some schools already have plans to get to that magic 50K seat plateau anyway (Louisville is about there, Utah expansion to 50K which on it's site is about the biggest you can get too is in planning).  But other older venues may not be so easily expanded.  The point is, the 50K plateau would solve a lot of the shakeout problems, would allow a truly meaningful defination of "mid major" to exist and might solve a host of anti-trust issues.  Add a +1 or +2 NC format to the top tier and everyone gets real happy.  Require some revenue sharing (say 25%) from the top tier to be distributed to the Mid-major and lower FCS tier programs.  Finally, allow conferences to couple between Top Tier and mid major OTF, so that two teams from the lower tier move up and the two worst teams move down every year.  That would certainly create a lot more interest in lower tier programs.

FWAA

Did you look up anything before you decided to post just to hear yourself talk?

Much of the Big East? Try 3, though really 2. 49,250 is essentially 50,000. And Louisville? Did you do any research at all or have you been in the dark for the past year or more? Try 56,000. Now maybe I missed the memo, but I don't see how 56,000 is less than 50,000.

ACC? Looks like you missed the mark again. 3 out of 12 are below 50,000. 25% hardly seems like many, but you said 2 out of 8 was much of the Big East. At least you were actually right about Utah and Oregon State.

And if 30,000 seats were a requirement, why are there 13 schools below 30,000? It's actually 15,000; again, do your research.


3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]

Failed research again...

KSU - 50,500
ISU - 55,000
Maryland - 51,500

Did you intend to list your magic number at 60,000, it seems you missed your mark on about half your argument with stadium capacities.




Since: May 25, 2009
Posted on: August 16, 2011 5:59 pm
 

Ex-NCAA president Dempsey: FBS split on its way

San Jose State?  They nearly dropped football a few years back.  Stanford and Cal would want new members to have some academic firepower as well.  Nice try, but I'd say a beefed up UC Davis has more chance than SJS, and I don't think UC Davis has much chance at all.



Since: Oct 18, 2009
Posted on: August 16, 2011 3:43 pm
 

Ex-NCAA president Dempsey: FBS split on its way

I don't think wwe should pay our college athletes to play but I do think we should pay their expenses.  You can not live on room and board, there are incidental expenses associated with just being alive.  These athletes , in particular the football players, are earning millions of dollars for the universities they play for.  Good grief what can a small monthly stipend hurt? It would probably eliminate a lot of the infractions too.  A young adult needs to be able to do more than eat, sleep and go to practice.  They do not have time to have apart time job because of their commitment to the university and the need to practice and work out.  Give these kids a break don't pay them, but do pay their expenses.



Since: Oct 24, 2006
Posted on: August 16, 2011 1:03 pm
 

Perhaps it is time to upgrade the requirements!

Right now, general FBS participation requires a school to have a 30,000 seat stadium and minimal requirements of about 60% of that support that goes with it.  About half the FBS level programs are at the 50,000 seat stadium level.  To me, that is the demarcation of major college ball.  A LOT of well known FBS programs are below that level, schools like Utah, Oregon State, Louisville, much of the Big-East, many of the ACC schools.   How is it that one of the bigger satronger programs in the country BYU is not BCS?  To me size matters.  It is probably only a matter of a year or so before BYU gets elevated to Notre Dame statuse with or without a BCS conference, in part because of how strong it has ben for 4 decades, and because ESPN (BYU's Independence partner) which has the gold (BCS Contracts) probably ultimately makes the rules.  BYU is in good shape no matter what.  But is KSU, ISU, Duke, Wake Forest, NC State, Maryland?   Some schools already have plans to get to that magic 50K seat plateau anyway (Louisville is about there, Utah expansion to 50K which on it's site is about the biggest you can get too is in planning).  But other older venues may not be so easily expanded.  The point is, the 50K plateau would solve a lot of the shakeout problems, would allow a truly meaningful defination of "mid major" to exist and might solve a host of anti-trust issues.  Add a +1 or +2 NC format to the top tier and everyone gets real happy.  Require some revenue sharing (say 25%) from the top tier to be distributed to the Mid-major and lower FCS tier programs.  Finally, allow conferences to couple between Top Tier and mid major OTF, so that two teams from the lower tier move up and the two worst teams move down every year.  That would certainly create a lot more interest in lower tier programs.

FWAA




Since: Jul 2, 2008
Posted on: August 16, 2011 12:18 pm
 

Ex-NCAA president Dempsey: FBS split on its way

I can only imagine the rampant abuse that "will" happen when they start "subsidizing" athletes. Will it be across the board? Will it also include Womens Swimming and soccer etc... Will it be spread evenly across all sports?

I know something should be done but when the greedy super conferences get involved everything will go out the window. And if they defect from the NCAA, well then I can see major Federal Government action down the road to curb abusive practices.

I have no answer to the issue except that whatever they do it has to be fair across the board for all levels of universities and sports or it wont work.



Since: Sep 9, 2006
Posted on: August 16, 2011 11:25 am
 

14-Team Super Conferences

Having some fun with EA Sports latest NCAA Football game, players can realign conferences. Playing around with this it starts to get pretty difficult to align the major conferences with 14 or 16 teams ... 14 seems to be the right peak while retaining the following conferences: ACC, Big 1G, Big East, Big XII, MWC, PAC-12, and SEC. The other conferences would still exist but would no longer be relevant as they've been cannibalized of their good teams to expand the power conferences.

For fun this is what I came up with trying to be as geographically sound as possible ... pie in the sky but fun:

ACC - Tobacco Road Division
Duke
East Carolina
Louisville
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Virginia
Virginia Tech

ACC - Citrus Division
Central Florida
Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Miami, Fla
South Florida
Wake Forest

Added Louisville and South Florida from the Big East; East Carolina, Central Florida from C-USA; removed Boston College and Maryland.

BIG EAST - Yankee Division
Army
Boston College
Connecticut
Massachusetts
Penn State
Rutgers
Syracuse

BIG EAST - Mason Dixon Division
Marshall
Maryland
Navy
Pittsburgh
Temple
Villanova
West Virginia

Added Penn State from the Big 10; Boston College and Maryland from the ACC; Marshall from C-USA; Temple from the MAC; Army and Navy; UMass and Villanova are soon moving up division; removed Cincinnati, Louisville, and South Florida.

BIG MIDWEST - Leaders Division
Iowa
Iowa State
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Northwestern
Wisconsin

BIG MIDWEST - Legends Division
Cincinnati
Illinois
Indiana
Nebraska
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Purdue

Added Cincinnati from the Big East; Iowa State from the Big XII; Notre Dame; removed Penn State.

BIG SOUTHWEST - Great Plains Division
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
North Texas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Tulsa

BIG SOUTHWEST - Prairie Division
Baylor
Houston
Rice
Southern Methodist
Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech

Added Houston, Rice, SMU, Tulsa from C-USA; North Texas from the Sunbelt.

MOUNTAIN WEST - Gold Division
Air Force
Boise State
Brigham Young
Colorado
Colorado State
Idaho
Wyoming

MOUNTAIN WEST - Silver Division
Nevada
New Mexico
Texas Christian
Texas-El Paso
UNLV
Utah
Utah State

Added Brigham Young; Colorado and Utah from the PAC-12; Nevada, Idaho, Utah State from the WAC; UTEP from C-USA.

PACIFIC - Northwest Division
California
Oregon
Oregon State
San Jose State
Stanford
Washington
Washington State

PACIFIC - Southwest Division
Arizona
Arizona State
Fresno State
Hawai'i
San Diego State
Southern California
UCLA

Added Fresno State, Hawai'i, San Jose State from the WAC; San Diego State from MWC; removed Colorado and Utah.

SEC - East Division
Alabama
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Southern Mississippi

SEC - West Division
Arkansas
Louisiana State
Memphis
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

Added Memphis and Southern Mississippi from C-USA.




Since: Jul 10, 2008
Posted on: August 16, 2011 6:23 am
 

Ex-NCAA president Dempsey: FBS split on its way

Yes, the Navy does understand the need for helping its students, but it is a bad example to use here.  The Navy gets it back with the 4 year hitch that all "students" do in service of their country. 



Since: Dec 5, 2006
Posted on: August 16, 2011 2:53 am
 

Ex-NCAA president Dempsey: FBS split on its way

The US Government recognizes the need for spending money in college. Consider what the US Navy ROTC Scholarship includes:

The NROTC scholarship does much more than cover most or all tuition costs at dozens of top schools around the country. It also provides:

  • All additional educational and lab fees
  • A stipend for text books
  • A subsistence allowance each academic month to spend as you wish, which varies according your current year in school.
    • Freshman – $250
    • Sophomore – $300
    • Junior – $350
    • Senior – $400

It all amounts to a college experience unobstructed by financial concern. Allowing you to focus on what matters most: making the most of student life.

Now future Navy officers are far more important to this society than future defensive tackles in the NFL so I am not making that comparison. But the time demands of going to college and adding the requirements of the ROTC program leaves the Navy no doubt that a student does not have time for a job. The same is generally true of student-athletes. With weight room, practice, travel and games there is very little opportunity for athletes to add jobs. Just saying.





Since: Jan 1, 2007
Posted on: August 15, 2011 8:17 pm
 

Ex-NCAA president Dempsey: FBS split on its way

As far as superconferences, I think 16 teams is a good number.  It makes the divisions big enough that most ravalry games could be within the division.  You would play seven division foes, two non-division foes, and three non-conference games each year.  If the Pac-16, Big 16, ACC, and SEC were to break off from the rest of Division-1 and become the BCS Division, then there would be 64 teams and you would only be allowed (and maybe even required) to play one non-BCS game per year.  This would allow for non-BCS rivalry games to continue like Colorado-Colorado St., Utah-Utah St., UAB-Alabama, etc.  I know these are not major "rivalries" but some are important and traditional intrastate games.


They've never played. Ever. In history.


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