When Jesus returns and makes Mano kneel before Him and confess Him as Lord, do you think he'll also have to admit the earth was only thousands of year's old?LMAO! Well played, STO.
Mano...the "very leaders of the Christian faith" is BUNK.How is it bunk? Find me ONE clear leader of any major religious faith that doesn't support the scientifically accepted age of the universe. Just ONE!
Apparent age is something you can't account for so you dismiss it...some scienceApparent age can't be accounted for because its a philosophy, not a theory. A theory can be tested. This is just a philosophy used to gainsay any and all logical arguments against it.
If you want to believe something bad enough, you can believe anything. You have demonstrated it.Don't try and turn the "belief" argument back on me, mlm. Its insulting. I believe what has been physically proven beyond all reasonable doubt. If this were a court of law, a 12 to 15 billion year old universe would be proven. It meets all the criteria. The unreasonable argument that some mythical being is testing our faith and making it appear the universe is 12 to 15 billions years old would be laughed out of court.
"Mean spirited trick" is just another example of SPIN used to try sell one's argument. And that is really all you have going for your arguments.What else would you call it? You are asking me to believe that God is tricking us into thinking something that isn't really there, while inspiring someone to write a truth in a book that is impossible to prove. Sounds like a mean spirited trick to me.
You have posted "...Mean spirited trick..." and "...some weird, sadistic path of deception..." in your responses. It doesn't seem like someone that doesn't have a problem with faith in God.I have no problem with faith in God at all. I do have a problem with blind faith. I do have a problem with ignorance. Until this thread, I had never met a man of faith that actually believed that the creation myth could be true to a word. I respect a man of faith who can accept science and still have his faith. I can't respect anyone's faith that is precedented on trying to force science to fit that faith. There's a difference, mlm.
Perhaps you do believe in God with modifications to the accounting. Obviously you don't agree with the account of creation. Are there any other things that you don't believe or is the rest of the accounting acceptable?No. Not one account of God that has been written by man is acceptable. The Bible, the Koran, the Book or Mormon, Dianetics, etc, etc, etc. Perhaps there is a God out there somewhere, but I seriously doubt that the human race has any valid knowledge of it. This is my belief.
As for ANYONE that would try to teach another person that creation is a reality, show me where I have stated it to be so. I am questioning your claim that it IS a myth - not trying to state that it IS fact.I wasn't implying that you, specifically, were supporting this myth as a fact or that you, specifically, were teaching it that way. Obviously, though, for anyone to have this belief, it has to be taught by someone else to them. I find that very disturbing. Its propagating ignorance.
I'm not sure where you are going with this one...you can't stand organizations that follow science???My disdain for organized religion is well documented in this thread, mlm. Since it is the Christian creation myth that is at question here, though, I think its very important to acknowledge that the major Christian leaders agree with science's findings about the age of the universe and the Earth.
I don't want to sidetrack the existing lines of argument,By all means, LTS!!! LMAO! I love my Steelers brethren, but even a Canadian has only so much patience!!
Where does spirituality come from? Do you think this self-realization is a human trait or do other animals exhibit these characteristics although they can't express them in ways we understand?I think you are asking two different questions, LTS. To me, there is a big difference between spirituality and self-realization.
Basically, how do you address the very existence of spiritual leanings in mankind?If that's the primary question, then I can try to answer it. Man is an emotional being. We have intelligence, imagination and fear. When you combine those things, you have a being who not only questions his existence, he fears his end. Those questions and that fear lead him to the belief that there must be something beyond himself. A higher power, a being above himself. The idea that this life, that is painfully short, is all that there is can be a frightful concept. Man's nature is self preservation and there is no better way to preserve yourself than to convince yourself that you will continue on even once your body is gone.
Now I'm not a scientist but I do know that somewhere during the process of the scientific method comes the requirement of an actual experiment. This is needed to show evidence that the preordained hypothesis is correct, or if not, why not. During the course of performing any experiment for the old/young universe question, we are always stuck having to use the available human record as evidence. The question here is -- how reliable is this information?Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but "available human records" don't enter into this discussion. The science we are talking about is centered around dating the materials of the Earth and the vastness of space to determine the age of the universe and this planet. The accuracy of record keeping in ages past is irrelevant.
Holy Crap! I take a month off from the boards and this happens....... LolLet us know when you get caught up, Cap!